You put so much thoughts into this difficult topic and also covered Tish Murta. Well done! Her work is truly impressive and although I am someone who always respects copyrights, in this particular case, I am not sure whether I would have written about her / shared her photos after reading the claimer from her daughter. On the other hand and as you said, you don’t make money from it and only want to make sure -as her daughter as well - that the work of Tish is not forgotten. I would say you only acted in the best and honorable way possible. I hope you don’t get into trouble for it.
Thank you for this important topic. I once mentioned to someone here on Substack (another photographer) who posted a photograph in Notes that it would be nice to give the creator credit (I was very polite) and I ended up being verbally harassed by several trolls. I was shocked. I will never understand why (especially) photographers won’t give credit where credit is due. Wouldn’t you want this for your own work as well? Well, I guess I know your answer already! Sorry, for the rant…
Neil, thank you for the insightful article. I strongly support the principle of fair use, especially in the context of critiquing art. Without it, we lose the capacity to fully engage with and discuss art, potentially leading to its cultural demise. Your ethical concerns about Tish's daughter and her quest for justice and recognition for her mother resonate with me. However, I believe your use of the images falls well within fair use guidelines, deepening our appreciation for Tish, a notable British documentary photographer.
I fully support photographers receiving rightful credit and compensation. Nevertheless, it's apparent that large corporations exploit copyright and patent laws to maintain market dominance at the expense of smaller entities. This is evident on platforms like YouTube, where DMCA takedown notices are often misused by these corporations against smaller creators, who lack the resources to contest these claims. Such practices not only hinder the fair sharing of art but also obstruct critical discourse.
I imagine Tish Murtha would have opposed the current misuse of fair use laws by these corporations. On a brighter note, as mentioned by Andrew Erberlin elsewhere in thsee comments, Tish’s prints are available at the British Culture Archive at a very reasonable price, reflecting the quality and historical importance of her work. I personally own several of her prints. For those interested in her photography, here’s the link to her collection again: https://britishculturearchive.co.uk/product-category/tish-murtha-limited-edition-prints/.
I only recently discovered Tish Murta’s work, I think maybe the Guardian review of the documentary? An amazing body of work and social documentary at it best! I can’t imagine trying to to highlight, promote, or continue her life’s quest without including her images..As you mentioned it would have been nice to be given the Estate’s blessings..but I think you have handled it well and succeeded in bringing to our attention to the many hoops one has to go through with copyrights, lawyers and money, at the same time highlighting Tish Marta! I believe she has a website. Cheers..(please note I made no mention of the iron lady)
Tish Murtha is one of my favourite photographers. I didn’t realise so many of her photos included her siblings until I watched the film. Including the person holding the puppet in the mattress photo. It’s one of my desert island photos and I have a print of it from the British Cultural Archive on my wall (https://britishculturearchive.co.uk/product-category/tish-murtha-limited-edition-prints/).
You also make some very interesting points about copyright. I noticed a couple of years ago on Twitter, when Marc Davenant shared her photos, there were lots of copyright provisos on his tweets. Like you, if we are critiquing and promoting a photographer’s work, I hope it’s ok to share them. But it’s a muddy area. We have to respect the photographer’s wishes.
I'm looking forward to watching the movie about Tish Murta soon. It's interesting to read your photographic reaction after being impressed by her work.
There is such a huge gap between intellectual property law and how easy it is to share information on digital networks. Just to add a layer to the complexity of the debate: there's also a history of copyright laws being used to silence legitimate expression about matters of general interest, prevent discussion or parody. Strong copyright laws may quickly translate into dangerous threats on freedom of expression and democratic public discourse.
As a matter of principle (actual laws may differ from principles), while credit should always be given when using an image, and commercial use should always be auhtorized by the right-holders, i believe that there's an important legitimate interest in discussing works of art. We all learn and grow from the process of sharing information and thoughts about artists, photographers, books, without causing harm to the commercial value of the works.
You put so much thoughts into this difficult topic and also covered Tish Murta. Well done! Her work is truly impressive and although I am someone who always respects copyrights, in this particular case, I am not sure whether I would have written about her / shared her photos after reading the claimer from her daughter. On the other hand and as you said, you don’t make money from it and only want to make sure -as her daughter as well - that the work of Tish is not forgotten. I would say you only acted in the best and honorable way possible. I hope you don’t get into trouble for it.
Thank you for this important topic. I once mentioned to someone here on Substack (another photographer) who posted a photograph in Notes that it would be nice to give the creator credit (I was very polite) and I ended up being verbally harassed by several trolls. I was shocked. I will never understand why (especially) photographers won’t give credit where credit is due. Wouldn’t you want this for your own work as well? Well, I guess I know your answer already! Sorry, for the rant…
Neil, thank you for the insightful article. I strongly support the principle of fair use, especially in the context of critiquing art. Without it, we lose the capacity to fully engage with and discuss art, potentially leading to its cultural demise. Your ethical concerns about Tish's daughter and her quest for justice and recognition for her mother resonate with me. However, I believe your use of the images falls well within fair use guidelines, deepening our appreciation for Tish, a notable British documentary photographer.
I fully support photographers receiving rightful credit and compensation. Nevertheless, it's apparent that large corporations exploit copyright and patent laws to maintain market dominance at the expense of smaller entities. This is evident on platforms like YouTube, where DMCA takedown notices are often misused by these corporations against smaller creators, who lack the resources to contest these claims. Such practices not only hinder the fair sharing of art but also obstruct critical discourse.
I imagine Tish Murtha would have opposed the current misuse of fair use laws by these corporations. On a brighter note, as mentioned by Andrew Erberlin elsewhere in thsee comments, Tish’s prints are available at the British Culture Archive at a very reasonable price, reflecting the quality and historical importance of her work. I personally own several of her prints. For those interested in her photography, here’s the link to her collection again: https://britishculturearchive.co.uk/product-category/tish-murtha-limited-edition-prints/.
I only recently discovered Tish Murta’s work, I think maybe the Guardian review of the documentary? An amazing body of work and social documentary at it best! I can’t imagine trying to to highlight, promote, or continue her life’s quest without including her images..As you mentioned it would have been nice to be given the Estate’s blessings..but I think you have handled it well and succeeded in bringing to our attention to the many hoops one has to go through with copyrights, lawyers and money, at the same time highlighting Tish Marta! I believe she has a website. Cheers..(please note I made no mention of the iron lady)
Great piece Neil, I’d not heard of Tish Murta. I’ll watch the documentary. Happy Easter to you and Laura. Gx
Another very good read, Neil.
Tish Murtha is one of my favourite photographers. I didn’t realise so many of her photos included her siblings until I watched the film. Including the person holding the puppet in the mattress photo. It’s one of my desert island photos and I have a print of it from the British Cultural Archive on my wall (https://britishculturearchive.co.uk/product-category/tish-murtha-limited-edition-prints/).
You also make some very interesting points about copyright. I noticed a couple of years ago on Twitter, when Marc Davenant shared her photos, there were lots of copyright provisos on his tweets. Like you, if we are critiquing and promoting a photographer’s work, I hope it’s ok to share them. But it’s a muddy area. We have to respect the photographer’s wishes.
Very interesting post on all accounts.
I'm looking forward to watching the movie about Tish Murta soon. It's interesting to read your photographic reaction after being impressed by her work.
There is such a huge gap between intellectual property law and how easy it is to share information on digital networks. Just to add a layer to the complexity of the debate: there's also a history of copyright laws being used to silence legitimate expression about matters of general interest, prevent discussion or parody. Strong copyright laws may quickly translate into dangerous threats on freedom of expression and democratic public discourse.
As a matter of principle (actual laws may differ from principles), while credit should always be given when using an image, and commercial use should always be auhtorized by the right-holders, i believe that there's an important legitimate interest in discussing works of art. We all learn and grow from the process of sharing information and thoughts about artists, photographers, books, without causing harm to the commercial value of the works.
Thank you for this article! And as Carolyn Scott already said in her comment ;
A minefield! yes, Indeed. And thank you for making me discover Tish Murtha.
A minefield 😳